New PC (Reprise) - Starting Big, finding a good medium

[Alexander Morou]

Hello,

I posted a similar message over a year ago, thinking that the job I was working at was going to continue to give me the insane hours I was working. A year or more later, I'm back, and with similar goals, with a financial backing that's guaranteed (even better: it's easier!)

I want to build a personal computer that will last me the next four to six years, and albeit a bit pointless, I want to start with hardware that's considered 'cutting edge'. Which is short for saying it'll be retardedly expensive. If my estimates are right, I should be able to save $2,000 a month, which should be more than enough to build a top of the line computer in about three months.

This discussion is to allow me to post what my picks are, right now, to get insight on what would be more appropriate, considering my goals: I want to research 3D programming, but the system I have now can't even play Half-Life 2 (6 fps isn't playable). While I don't need cutting edge hardware to research, it would be nice to be able to have a system that can play a game, with decent visuals, as well (what fun is it in making games, if you can't even play them?)

Here is a listing of the specs as I have chosen them so far:

Case            :   $369.99 - LIAN LI PC-P80 Black Aluminum ATX

                              Full Tower Computer Case

Motherboard     :   $449.99 - ASUS P6T7 WS Supercomputer "Ultimate 

                              Gamer" choose 3Way SLI + PhysX at 

                              Real X16 X58 CEB Intel Motherboard

Video Cards     : $1,169.97 - 3x Galaxy 85TGF1HU1QUZ GeForce GTX 285 1GB

                              512-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP

                              Ready SLI Support Video Card

Power Supply    :   $399.99 - Thermaltake Toughpower W0133RU 1200W ATX12V

                              / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS

                              Certified Modular Active PFC

                              Power Supply

Processor       :   $989.99 - Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition Bloomfield

                              3.33GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor

                              Model BX80601975

Hard Drive      :   $599.00 - Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2M160G2R5 2.5"

                              160GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State

                              Drive (SSD)

Memory          : $1,199.97 - 3x G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin

                              DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop

                              Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

Optical Drive   :    $31.99 - LITE-ON Black 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model

                              iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support 

Operating System:   $179.99 - Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit 1-Pack for

                              System Builders

Total           : $5,390.88

3-way SLI is a bit in the area of excess; however, due to the absence of tech in my region, the only way I'll ever see it is if I build a system with it. I also plan to, later on, use a multiple-display system, which might involve removing the SLI bridge and adding monitors, the easiest way to do that would be multiple video cards (and still maintain a measure of performance, versus using one card for two or more outputs.)

If you have suggestions towards the hardware, towards what might be more useful considering my goals, please comment.

 

[psiclone]

I'm not sure a "crossfire" ready power supply is compatible with Nvidia's "sli" technology. They do the same thing, yes, but I think the manner in which it's done is different (besides the cards being different companies). That, and ASUS is ATI, I believe, thus I don't think you can SLI Nvidia cards on the ATI mobo.

Your hard drive seems.. small for someone who wants to do 3D programming. Then again, for all I know 160gb is plenty for what you're doing. You'll end up using all that space pretty fast if you've got a slew of games you're waiting to install into it. I have 2 500gb hard drives, and they're both almost full from my games I've got, plus music and videos I've recorded while playing games.

As far as the optical drive goes.. why not just get a dual-layer writer, or even blu-ray? You've got about 600 bucks leeway there (if you're saving precisely 2000 every month, that totals to 6000 at the end of your 3 month period).

And I personally don't care for 64x systems because there are so many incompatibility issues with them. You can't just install 32x stuff on it and expect them to work.

Otherwise.. can I have that computer when you're done with it? :P

 

[Alexander Morou]

From my understanding of hardware, SLI (Scaleable Link Interface) ready means it supports SLI, which is primarily used when referencing nVidia products, since ATI uses Crossfire terminology. Someone correct me here if I'm wrong.

The motherboard says it's 3-way SLI ready; the power supply says it's SLI certified. I think for what I have selected, it should be fine.

The hard-drive is small for starters because I don't think I'll be making super high resolution textures any time soon since I'll be starting out. I'll expand the hard drive capacity as it's needed.

 

[psiclone]

Whoops, I missed the part where it said SLI certified. Yeah, you're fine there then.

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

Building Computers is fun :D You can actually shave of some money off of that build while actually making it more powerful.
I put them in spoilers because there's a lot here 0_0

Spoiler: Case

Choosing a case mostly comes down to personal preference. The only important things to consider is how many drive bays it has and what the airflow of it is. The case you picked looks like it'll be about as good as any other. However, I don't think you need a full tower case. A midtower is big enough to handle 3 video cards. However, it certainly would be nice to have the extra room for wires and such, so if you have the space for a full tower they can be nice. If you wanted to save a little extra money on this, you can definitely find some cheaper ones, but I guess a lot of people like to stick with LIAN LI.

Spoiler: Motherboard

Good choice. X58 chipset, so it's future friendly (You can get i9 when it comes out if you want :D ). It's also got 6 DIMM slots instead of 4 you see on some motherboards. The ones that say their max RAM is 16 GB (4 x 4GB) are silly, because if you use that configuration, you can't get the speed of the i7's triple channel memory controller. You've got plenty of PCI Express slots (Plenty 0_0)

Spoiler: Video Cards

If you are an nVidia fan you won't listen to me, but that is a huge mistake. The ATI Radeon 5870 is the fastest single GPU card, and in most cases it is even faster than nVidia's fastes dual-GPU board (The GTX 295). The Radeon 5870 is only about $20 more per card, but if you just get 2 of those instead, you save about $300 and you will be able to max out any current game and get great framerates. (Crysis Warhead Enthusiast 4xAA 1920 x 1440 is about 50FPS on 5870 CF). In addition, the 5870 actually uses less power than the 285 both idle and full load. Probably the most important advantage for you if you want to be exploring 3D programming is DirectX 11. Even if you hate Microsoft, DirectX 11 hardware is very significant. Hardware tessellation means that scenes will be both more detailed and can be drawn quicker. DirectX 11 also adds a couple new programmable shader stages, you should check it out if you haven't already.

If you are one of those absolutely anti-ATI people (Which to be honest, you shouldn't be anymore. Since they got bought by AMD, they've been better with drivers and such, because now all they worry about is developing and MAD does their marketing stuff) then wait for NVidia's Fermi line. NVidia says it will be faster than the 5870 (I don't believe it personally, because they also say the 295 is faster than the 5870, which is only true in very particular scenarios) and more importantly the fermi line will have DX11.

Spoiler: Power Supply

Good choice. Definitely don't want to cheap out on the power supply. I personally would have chosen coolermaster or antec, but it comes down to which companies you like. Just as long as you stay with the companies we know are good (Antec, Coolermaster, Thermaltake, OCZ, all of those sorts)

Spoiler: Processor

To be honest with you, you can save some money and gain some performance if you wait a little bit for the i7 930. It's $280 and it runs at 2.88Ghz stock. If you use the money you save on cooling, you should be able to get 4-5Ghz on over clock no problem.

Spoiler: Hard Drive

Solid state drives are certainly more reliable and shock proof, but based on the fact you are getting a full tower, I don't think you're planning on moving that around too much. As for the speed issue, with games the only thing you're going to notice is an improved load time. In my opinion, solid state drives are too expensive for gamer's use. If you really really need speed, I would say go with a Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB. It's less than half the price for almost twice the storage. If it was me, I wouldn't even go for that. I would go for like a Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB (Actually, I prefer to have things split up between hard drives so I would do a few 500GB drives). If you take my advice on this one, you're gonna save a couple hundred here.

Spoiler: Memory

Hehe, sorry but I don't think you are going to need that much memory for a long time. Memory prices are high right now, I would 100% recommend that you go for a 6GB triple channel kit (3 x 2GB) for about $250. If you really really need more memory later, memory prices should fall again later.

Spoiler: Optical Drive

Doesn't look like that drive supports CDs at all. They're going but they aren't quite completely dead yet Try the LITE-ON 22X DVD+/-R. It's got good CD support as well as decent DVD support. Actually, get two of them

Spoiler: Operating System

Good choice :D (Aren't you glad you opened this spoiler?)

If you want, I can put together a NewEgg public wishlist with the parts

 

[Alexander Morou]

Case:Choosing a case mostly comes down to personal preference. The only important things to consider is how many drive bays it has and what the airflow of it is. The case you picked looks like it'll be about as good as any other. However, I don't think you need a full tower case. A midtower is big enough to handle 3 video cards. However, it certainly would be nice to have the extra room for wires and such, so if you have the space for a full tower they can be nice. If you wanted to save a little extra money on this, you can definitely find some cheaper ones, but I guess a lot of people like to stick with LIAN LI.

I picked this case, because I liked the look and the aluminum base material.

Motherboard:Good choice. X58 chipset, so it's future friendly (You can get i9 when it comes out if you want :D ). It's also got 6 DIMM slots instead of 4 you see on some motherboards. The ones that say their max RAM is 16 GB (4 x 4GB) are silly, because if you use that configuration, you can't get the speed of the i7's triple channel memory controller. You've got plenty of PCI Express slots (Plenty 0_0)

I wanted a motherboard that was expandable. I don't have to worry about having a slot free.

Video Cards:If you are an nVidia fan you won't listen to me, but that is a huge mistake. The ATI Radeon 5870 is the fastest single GPU card, and in most cases it is even faster than nVidia's fastes dual-GPU board (The GTX 295). The Radeon 5870 is only about $20 more per card, but if you just get 2 of those instead, you save about $300 and you will be able to max out any current game and get great framerates. (Crysis Warhead Enthusiast 4xAA 1920 x 1440 is about 50FPS on 5870 CF). In addition, the 5870 actually uses less power than the 285 both idle and full load. Probably the most important advantage for you if you want to be exploring 3D programming is DirectX 11. Even if you hate Microsoft, DirectX 11 hardware is very significant. Hardware tessellation means that scenes will be both more detailed and can be drawn quicker. DirectX 11 also adds a couple new programmable shader stages, you should check it out if you haven't already.

If you are one of those absolutely anti-ATI people (Which to be honest, you shouldn't be anymore. Since they got bought by AMD, they've been better with drivers and such, because now all they worry about is developing and MAD does their marketing stuff) then wait for NVidia's Fermi line. NVidia says it will be faster than the 5870 (I don't believe it personally, because they also say the 295 is faster than the 5870, which is only true in very particular scenarios) and more importantly the fermi line will have DX11.

I'm not so much anti-ATI as I am just not familiar with it. I'm thinking about waiting until the new GF100 architecture comes out so I can at least have a DirectX 11 compatible video card, because as you say, it's a significant change, especially if newer games will target this framework.

Power Supply:Good choice. Definitely don't want to cheap out on the power supply. I personally would have chosen coolermaster or antec, but it comes down to which companies you like. Just as long as you stay with the companies we know are good (Antec, Coolermaster, Thermaltake, OCZ, all of those sorts)

I've heard a lot about Thermaltake, the little tech I do hear about talks about it, so I go with what I know.

Processor:To be honest with you, you can save some money and gain some performance if you wait a little bit for the i7 930. It's $280 and it runs at 2.88Ghz stock. If you use the money you save on cooling, you should be able to get 4-5Ghz on over clock no problem.

I want the unlocked multiplier so I can have a bit more leg room, I hear it's also more stable and suited for over clocking.

Hard Drive:Solid state drives are certainly more reliable and shock proof, but based on the fact you are getting a full tower, I don't think you're planning on moving that around too much. As for the speed issue, with games the only thing you're going to notice is an improved load time. In my opinion, solid state drives are too expensive for gamer's use. If you really really need speed, I would say go with a Western Digital VelociRaptor 300GB. It's less than half the price for almost twice the storage. If it was me, I wouldn't even go for that. I would go for like a Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB (Actually, I prefer to have things split up between hard drives so I would do a few 500GB drives). If you take my advice on this one, you're gonna save a couple hundred here.

I forgot to mention my alternative use: mass code generation. There are times when I have used my code generation frameworks to construct over 170MB of code to build a single dynamic link library. Being able to quickly write these files will be key in my long term goals.

Memory:Hehe, sorry but I don't think you are going to need that much memory for a long time. Memory prices are high right now, I would 100% recommend that you go for a 6GB triple channel kit (3 x 2GB) for about $250. If you really really need more memory later, memory prices should fall again later.

This goes with the code generation. There are code samples I can't generate because I don't have sufficient operating memory to work with, so this gives me room in case I need it.

Optical Drive:Doesn't look like that drive supports CDs at all. They're going but they aren't quite completely dead yet Try the LITE-ON 22X DVD+/-R. It's got good CD support as well as decent DVD support. Actually, get two of them

I'll look into it.

 

[Skyla Doragono]

Fuck Intel. Everything runs better on AMD. Seriously.

I have two computers, one with an AMD and one with an Intel. If I had more RAM in the AMD one (it only has a gig), it would run faster and perform better than the Intel.

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

Fuck Intel. Everything runs better on AMD. Seriously.

I have two computers, one with an AMD and one with an Intel. If I had more RAM in the AMD one (it only has a gig), it would run faster and perform better than the Intel.

o.0 That's awfully non-specific "one with an AMD and one with an Intel." What models? If you are comparing like a Phenom II 960 to a Pentium 4, that's not exactly fair, is it? In any case, AMD had the market for a short while, but once the Core 2 came out they lost it. They've been playing catch-up to Intel ever since. They still do not have a solid answer for the i7. The *only* reason to choose AMD over Intel is price. Clearly, he doesn't have to worry about that.

@AlexanderMorou: Yeah, you definitely do not want to get the 285. A complete waste of money these days.

As for the processor I still recommend the 930. It should actually be more stable than the 975 extreme because it's built on newer technology. You've got the money to spend on cooling that the multipliers won't matter too much.

As for memory, trust me 6GB is *a lot* of memory. Get the 6GB first and on the off chance that it's not enough, get another 3 or 6GB. All you have to lose by doing this is the week it takes for you to order the second set of RAM.

 

[Alexander Morou]

Fuck Intel. Everything runs better on AMD. Seriously.

I have two computers, one with an AMD and one with an Intel. If I had more RAM in the AMD one (it only has a gig), it would run faster and perform better than the Intel.

That's hardly a valid argument.

As for the processor I still recommend the 930. It should actually be more stable than the 975 extreme because it's built on newer technology. You've got the money to spend on cooling that the multipliers won't matter too much.

I'll probably update the specs some when I go to actually build the system.

As for memory, trust me 6GB is *a lot* of memory. Get the 6GB first and on the off chance that it's not enough, get another 3 or 6GB. All you have to lose by doing this is the week it takes for you to order the second set of RAM.

Only issue here is if I want to expand to maximum memory, I need 4GB single chips, so at the least, it'll be 12GB.

 

[Venetia]

lol what Atemu? Intel has dominated AMD for years. Just because something's more expensive doesn't mean they're the devil and want to give you a shoddy product :x

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

lol what Atemu? Intel has dominated AMD for years. Just because something's more expensive doesn't mean they're the devil and want to give you a shoddy product :x

Yep, no two ways about it. Intel costs more, but there's a reason for it. Their products are simply better. Intel held on to the Pentium 4 a bit too long, so AMD had some breathing room for a while, but since the Core 2 Duo came out, Intel's been the king again.