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Morality (Good VS Evil, Right VS Wrong)

Star

Sponsor

wikipedia [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality[/url]":31grb5mj]In its "normative" sense, morality refers directly to what is right and wrong, regardless of what specific individuals think. It could be defined as the conduct of the ideal "moral" person in a certain situation. This usage of the term is characterized by "definitive" statements such as "That act is immoral" rather than descriptive ones such as "Many believe that act is immoral." It is often challenged by a moral skepticism, in which the unchanging existence of a rigid, universal, objective moral "truth" is rejected,[1] and supported by moral realism, in which the existence of this "truth" is accepted. The normative usage of the term "morality" is also addressed by normative ethics.

So basically Morality is the definition of what you believe is right or wrong applying to different topics concerning having to judge whether it's good or evil as well. Also just because it's wrong doesn't mean it's always evil. Vice versa. Just because you think it's right doesn't mean you think it's always Holy or good.

Major topics that I want to discuss. Please state whether they are right or wrong and then state why you feel that way.

1. Killing a human being

2. Abortion

3. War

4. Cops

5. Big Government

6. Scams stupid people fall for with fine print

7. Killing animals for food

8. Owning Guns

9. Communism

10. Income Taxes

When I think of some more I'll put them down.
 

moxie

Sponsor

wow this is pretty much a clusterfuck of debate topics, isn't it?

#2. I think it's a woman's right to choose, and in many cases, abortion can be a much bigger mercy than allowing a kid to be born into a truly fucked up situation. It bugs me that people refer to their stance as "pro life" though. Unless they're fucked in the head everybody's pro life - nobody wants to end a little life before it begins, but what some fundamentalists don't realize is that there are some circumstances where it's just not good to bring a baby into the world.
 
I agree with Moe here, you are better off making ten separate threads then having a bunch of topics. You will get better, more elongated answers.

With that said, I also want to make this clear that this is the General Discussion, so please do not treat this as the Rec Room. Either add or dont post.

9. Communism: Everyone thinks communism is terrible, but if done right it could work. Now of course that it in a perfect society without corruption and stuff.

5. Big Government: I think the government should be more restrictive on things like health care and monitor it better and less restrictive on the people. Big Business seems to rip off members of society everyday, yet focus is being drawn to the people and not to the root of the issue.
 
I agree with the above- somethings like killing a human, war, and big government will eventually fit into morality topic, but the rest not as much. Morality is a really broad topic, i guess.

Anyways, I'm in my teenage emo rebellion leftist know-it-all phase atm, so with that said...

I don't believe in the possibility of morality, and its existence. Everything just too meaningless for there to be an idea of morality, or of the possibility of intrinsic values and evil's existence. There is living- people act, we react, and we do things for our own benefit or the benefit of others. We do things for growth, improvement, and survival. We are living things. We are nature. Nature is quite gruesome, and so are we. The best I can say is that life, collectively, is homeostatic.

Think about killing, a basic idea of evil and morality. Killing is bad. Harming is wrong. Some people don't care; we consider those bad guys. But then, there's war, where people are honored for killing. Another country is protrayed as bad. The agressors portray themselves as good. It's that simple, subjectivity of good and bad- which eventually leads to my belief in the lack of existence in the good and bad. Killing bad, but given the order to kill is good? Killing becomes good? It becomes good for a reason, for your own benefit, for the benefit of a country, of a territory marked out by those in power?

I disagree with that. While I, naturally and hypocritically, have my own feelings of good and evil, that's only because i want to do it for my own benefit, for the benefit of those close to me (which I consider selfish). Thus, my personal beliefs are of moral nihilism.

/emospeak
 

Star

Sponsor

Moxie":7f5zi3t9 said:
wow this is pretty much a clusterfuck of debate topics, isn't it?
Daxis told me to do it! *points at Daxis*

Bacon":7f5zi3t9 said:
I agree with Moe here, you are better off making ten separate threads then having a bunch of topics. You will get better, more elongated answers.
Yeah I know that. I just didn't wanna be a total ass and make 10 topics in a row

#2 Pro-Life. Why do you ask? Don't get an abortion, give it up for adoption. There's really no way a child shouldn't be given a chance to live. Even in rape scenario's, give it up for adoption. It will go to a better home. And if you choose to have sex and want to have an abortion, you're a fucking idiot. Your pleasure doesn't get to decide whether you give something a chance to live.

#9 Communism can really never be done right? Why? Well nobody will be happy if everyone gets the same of everything. That could be said about anything right? There is no reward for effort, so if you wanna slack, off with your head or just don't get caught. Communism is good to suppress people and control them.

#5 I don't think government should be allowed to decide whether I want healthcare or not. Why should I pay for something I don't need atm.
 
Star":3m93f221 said:
Daxis told me to do it! *points at Daxis*
<.<
>.>
Your pleasure doesn't get to decide whether you give something a chance to live.
personally, i would quite agree with. It's a shame it happens all the time, but even so, when you get technical and crap, that's what happens when you eat meat- cause it tastes good and a a good source of some type of nutrient or another. Does your growth deserve to give something a chance to live or not?[/quote]
#9 Communism can really never be done right? Why? Well nobody will be happy if everyone gets the same of everything. That could be said about anything right? There is no reward for effort, so if you wanna slack, off with your head or just don't get caught. Communism is good to suppress people and control them.
agree that communism can't be done right as long as we're human. Although i try to stay out of politics and crap, the idea of communism is quite cool in that there's no rich or poor, and that everyone can be happy (or is that socialism? forgot). Even once the world has unlimited resources and energy, with whatever you want easily gotten, there's still human nature to contend with, there's still intellectual property and shizz to contend with. Might even be worse, because those WITHOUT the ability to produce good products of the mind (stories, games, etc) would be discriminated against. Communism and socialism just wouldn't work.[/quote]

#5 I don't think government should be allowed to decide whether I want healthcare or not. Why should I pay for something I don't need atm.
er healthcare is like insurance. You pay it incase something happens. I'm not really clear on this area, so correct me on crap, but it's like saying you don't want insurance on your life, or you want the insurance on your own terms or something, right? In that case, the healthcare should be established for all those that are unable to get healthcare or something.
 

Star

Sponsor

Well yeah. Why should your desire for growth allow for something to live or die. Is good and all. But what I really meant was why should something that is of your species. I personally believe all animals are soulless but that's another topic I wont' go into.

Healthcare as an insurance for your life is good. But why should I pay for something I don't want. It might not make sense as to why I don't want it. But if someone said they don't want to eat or don't wanna buy a car to drive in or buy a house. Should you be all like. YOU PAYIN FOR IT or else. It's pretty much like telling you that you are forced to accept payment for something you will only care about when your sick. Most people do go out and get their health insurance. But with a government plan to control health care that would be bad. They'd get to decide who's worth living and who gets the black and white pill. Not to mention the wait. If you're rich and wanna get shit fixed fast, you'd end up going to another country that doesn't have healthcare paid with taxes. Just like people from other countries come to america to get their shit fixed cause they can and it's faster. "If you got cancer and not much time to live. Seriously, would you wait in line behind someone who broke their toe?
 

Star

Sponsor

candle":29rtilpi said:
morality is as society makes it [/end thread]
That's not very helpful.

No, Morality is what you think is right or wrong. You may let society pull your views of right or wrong but that doesn't make a difference to what other people may think.[/start thread]

Don't mini mod my thread.

*ragequit*
 
for 1-3 I think killing any1 is wrong even with reason, nd im against war unless its to protect my people nd by my people I dnt mean my country I mean my family nd what nt as far as cops nd the government I think their all pigs every 1s interested in eatin but no1 wants to help serve the food you knw. I have nothin to say about taxes because I dnt have a job nd I doubt I get one yet :/ im pretty sure theres nothin wrong with income tax other than it comin once a year which isnt totally bad bt its pretty bd. nd ownin guns should have nothin to do with morality its depenind on the morale of a person whether they abuse their right to have a gun or nt.

nd for the sake of arguing we make up society therfore we do indeed make the morality of society which we make up. lol
 

candle

Sponsor

several hundred years ago, it was morally right for girls no older than 13-14 to get married and have children. Now, it is morally wrong. As society changes, so does it's morality. To Hitler, it was morally right and perfectly justifiable to kill Jews. Should he have won WWII, society would have changed to fit him.
 
(Goes into Zen mode)

Morality, like most things, is a very binary, human term. "Good" and "Evil" are human creations, they are not universal to all life. For example, lions have no understanding of morality, and yet we portray them as understanding it. Take The lion king, in that we see two distinct lions, a good one and an evil one. But that is a false portrayal. The stronger lion would win, not the "good" lion. Life and death is also another binary term, one cannot exist without the other, in the same way that Good and Evil cannot exist without one another. You cannot have Good without Evil, one must exist so that the other must as well.

It is "moraly wrong" to steal, and yet in the animal kingdom it occurs all the time, the strong take from the weak, that is the way life works.


So before you prattle on about "morality" understand that it does not exist as a part of the world, only as a part of our perception of it.
 
No, just because you perceive something does not make it true, you could be hallucinating and thus see some weird stuff. That weird stuff is not true, it is only a single person who perceives it. Perception is alterd by the world, which thus alters the world, which alters our perception of it, and will spiral like that untill all that you perceeve is what you have made yourself.
 
hey we could salvage this thread, it doesn't have to be a back-and-forth squawkbattle about what morality is.

just have this format:

Q: Is this _____ moral or immoral"
- It's moral/immoral because ____

then they ask Q: Is ____ moral or immoral?

in kind of a game format except its their legit opinion and people can't argue. (because it's an opinion and it's theirs to have)

just an idea ... b/c this is becoming a shitstorm
 
Venetia":fg0mfrja said:
hey we could salvage this thread, it doesn't have to be a back-and-forth squawkbattle about what morality is.
awww but it's more fun like that and we can get more peoples' opinions easier. Now it'll feel like a forum games without the game part. :\

mouse":fg0mfrja said:
Is placing an old woman with dementia/alzheimers in a home and then selling her old home to pay for it immoral?

anywyas, it's not immoral to do anything cause there's no morality in the first place, so yeah, just do it. If anyone has a problem with it, it'll be their fault anyhoo. They'll be gone/not remember anything in the first place/won't care anyhoo so
 
Before I continue the game topic, I have a few things to say. First, many things are considered moral or immoral entirely based upon where it happens. For example, there are still societies today where cannibalism is a fundamental part of life. Note that I'm not talking horror-movie style, murder someone and eat them cannibalism. I'm talking about the ritualized forms, which can be found in several societies in south America, usually involving the devouring of already dead family or friends in a sort of extended "they live on in my heart" metaphor.

As for abortion, one thing to note is that in parts of Asia (especially China and India), it is illegal for a doctor to tell parents the gender of their unborn child because, in the vast majority of cases, the child would be aborted if it was a girl. In a sense, most people in that area consider it morally acceptable to abort even a late stage fetus if it is a girl, because if the girl is born and grows up, she will become a monstrous drain on the family's resources due to their marriage practices. (Specifically, these cultures have a tradition that the bride's family pay for the wedding and give a substantial gift to the groom's family, to make up for the fact that their daughter will become part of the groom's household, thus taking more resources there. By the way, this practice may be illegal in India, but it's still an expectation that many, many Indians have, and one of the more common news stories over there is that of a bride killed because her family couldn't provide a significant enough gift to the groom's family, even though the practice is illegal)

Anyway, now for my question.

If a sentient computer program is developed, do we have the right to limit it, edit it, or turn it off? Specifically, I mean if someone manages to create a computer program that not only thinks and reasons, but also has emotions. And before you answer, let me mention something else. To this program, what it feels would be as real to it as what we feel would be to us.
 

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