mawkomputer

[mawk]

so I am getting a new computer

my old laptop decided that it would have a more meaningful un-life if it became a strangely beautiful testament to electronic entropy so good on it

while my old laptop stays true to the sgt peppers sticker on the back and proudly broadcasts its electric dreams I am building a new one with cyberpowerpc.com -- megathanks to Venetia for letting me know that the dell store is lame and overpriced! so far this model is pretty awesome and a couple hundred less than the less-awesome dell I would have bought otherwise. a general overview:

* CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-940 2.93 GHz 8M L3 Cache LGA1366 [+146]
* HDD: Single Hard Drive (1.5TB (1.5TBx1) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 32MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [+27])
* MOTHERBOARD: * Asus P6T SE Intel X58 Chipset CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA RAID w/ eSATA
* MEMORY: 6GB (2GBx3) DDR3/1600MHz Triple Channel Memory Module (Corsair or Major Brand)
* SOUND: Creative Labs SB X-FI Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series PCI Express Sound Card [+199]
* VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 1GB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)

basically I ramped up the hd space, improved the ram slightly, and picked the most expensive soundcard with the largest numbers I could find. I left the rest the way it was. however, I am not a computer person and I am not sure if these things are ideal. I have a few questions about this and computers in general:

• I went with nvidia for the videocard because I'm most familiar with them, but how does it compare with ATI? between the two brands, which is the most reliable and which has the best performance? I'm not a huge computergame dude, so I don't need the best graphics card on the market, but is what I have sufficient for the current level of technology?
• I left the default motherboard in because I didn't know what to look for (besides price) and I wasn't sure how a better motherboard would affect the computer as a whole. what's best in a motherboard, and what does having a good one do for the computer I'm using? is it just a reliability thing?
• any tips about the CPU? I picked one slightly better than the default, but all I was really going on was the larger numbers next to GHz.
• aside from the number and positioning of the air vents, are there any major differences between the different cases avaliable? are there any in particular that have cool features like a customizable LED or a tiny live-in robot butler?
• last but not least, if you have any cautionary tales or horror stories pertaining to the online purchase of computers, I'd like to hear them. might as well brace for the worst, y'know?

thanks in advance, guys. you are all awesome.

 

[psiclone]

If you want to SLI your video cards, you'll want to make sure you get an SLI capable motherboard.. I made that mistake, and now I have this extra video card and SLI bridge doing nothing. Crossfire is for ATI cards (which I don't care for, personally, and is strictly a personal choice, you get w/e you want), so, yeah. I'm not sure how much you know about a motherboard, but when I chose mine, I was looking at the placement of the PCI-E and RAM slots. I didn't want them to be close together, which could potentially cause them to overheat each other.

The video card you have there is what I have, and it can run anything max with no problems. You're all set there.

As far as sound goes.. I don't see a point to waste money on a sound card. Just get your motherboard with on-board HD sound, and you'll be fine. That's what I've done with my last 2 computers, and I have never had a problem.

For Memory, make sure you've got a 64bit OS, otherwise you're wasting 2gb of ram. 32bit can't do higher than 4gb (technically its 3.2, but Vista says it recognizes all 4 of mine..)

I'm jealous of your i7 I have quad core AMD Phenom II, but I prefer AMD (again, just a personal choice)

As for your case, what I did was went on www.newegg.com and looked up the different cases that the website mentioned, and looked at the reviews people left. Look at things people say like the natural cooling ability, space, location of things, etc. Like I said in PWOYM, my case is:

which is the NZXT Alpha, and the natural cooling is phenomenal. No game makes it go above 42 celcius, so I'm really happy with that.

 

[mawk]

yeah, I'm getting it installed with Windows 7 64-bit, so it should work.

the soundcard is mainly because I plan to be doing a lot of stuff with VST instruments at some point in the future, and they get mad crackly if your soundcard isn't good enough to handle them. it's probably a little more than what I need, but this is just a prospective build right now, and I'm leaving room to cut some things out if I have less cash than I expect.

I'lll probably spring for a SLI-compatible motherboard, then. I don't see myself buying another videocard in the near future, but I might as well make it easy to do if I need to. once I get this computer, I plan to use it for quite a while.

I don't actually have any of this yet :x I'm just getting it out of the way for when I have the cash to buy it, so I'm being optimistic about the spare change I have. depending on how things go I may have to settle for a less awesome CPU.

anyway, thanks for the help, man. :thumb:

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

Nice, building new computers is fun. Looks like a pretty cool build, though I have a couple suggestions.

First, if it were me I wouldn't wait for the i7 940, I would get the i7 930 at the lower price point. If you are going with an i7, it will spend most of it's time at closer to 1.6Ghz anyway (These processors slow themselves way down unless it actually has to run at the higher clock speed). I have the i7 920 and I can't even push it no matter what I throw at it (Crysis, Far Cry 2 etc.) All of the i7 9xx are overpowered goodness, so any of them will be good :D You can just save a little money with the 930.

Also, if you get the NVidia 250 you will be kicking yourself in the head later for it. A 250 will totally gimp your machine, it's way underpowered compared to the processor. In fact, any nvidia card except maybe the 285 and 295 would gimp that machine. Even then, those cards are more expensive than their ATI counterparts, and the ATI cards are faster. If you were going to buy the computer right now, I would say without a doubt go for the ATI Radeon HD5850 (That's what I have, fantastic card, just like the processor it eats anything I throw at it) or the ATI Radeon HD 5870. If you wanted to get really crazy you could get the Radeon HD 5970, but that's probably overkill. I would totally suggest that you go with ATI over NVidia, but if you want to stick with NVidia wait til there Fermi line comes out. Their newer cards should support the newer features that the ATI cards already have.

So, to answer your questions:
Video Card: I 100% recommend an ATI 58XX series card. If you need to stick with Nvidia, wait for their newer cards to come out. If you go NVidia do not do not do not get anything less than the 285, because you will be totally wasting all the power of the processor. Even then, I would not recommend any current-gen hardware from NVidia.
Motherboard: From what I've seen, it's a pretty good board, but I haven't looked at it too closely.
CPU: If it were me, I would go with the 930 because you probably won't be doing anything that would push even a 920. If you have the money, though, as long as you stay in the i7 9xx family, you're golden. (Actually, I would recommend 930, 940 or 960 because the others have some older, less heat-efficient materials. It's not a big deal, but if you have the choice you should pick one of those)
Case: If you are not going to be buying any extra cooling, then make sure you have a lot of push/pull along the length of the case (That means make sure you have a lot of intake on the front and exhaust on the back. 120mm or 2 x 80mm on each end) and make sure you have side fans in the key areas like CPU and VGA. I would recommend the case I got, it's a Raidmaster SMILODON. It's pretty cheap, but it's got good fans in the right places. It's really quiet, and the ambient temperature in my case is like 27C. Also, it has some pretty cool looking LEDs. No robot butler D:
Horror Tales: When you are building the computer, just go really slow and make sure you follow all of the instructions. If something doesn't make sense, double check online. You're gonna be working with probably about $1500 of fragile equipment and you don't want to kill it before you even get to use it. I've never messed up a build, but I've heard tons of horror stories about frying parts because someone forgot to discharge the static they had built up and such. The only horror story I personally have had is that I went and bought the cheapest X58 motherboard I could find and the first one was effectively DOA (It died after about 5 hours of being powered on) and then when I RMAd it the second one had a loose heat sink on the south bridge.

If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer them. I like to build computers vicariously through others XD

 

[mawk]

whoah, awesome. I'm not actually building this in person, but rather ordering it through cyberpower -- I don't entirely trust myself with all that equipment, for more or less the reasons your brought up. I think I'll stick with my current CPU, just because this is an optimistic projection and I can always tone it down if my wallet requires it, but I'll switch to the HD 5850 for sure.

as cases go, neither the SMILODON or the NZXT Alpha appear to be available through cyberpower (although a significantly creepier NZXT-make puts in an appearance), but I think the next-best ventilated option (for mid-size towers, at least) is the NZXT M59. I'm not sure I'm crazy about the look, but I guess that's small peas as complaints go. I also have my eyes on the Raidmax Quantum, Raidmax Skyline, Apexia X-Dreamer 3, and Thermaltake Element-T.

of course, cyberpower are including liquid cooling systems for free, now, so that's another question -- as performance goes, should I go with a liquid cooling system, or more traditional fans? Venetia told me that a liquid cooling system will void certain warranties if installed, so that's another point of concern.

also, hard-drive cooling system: necessary?

(oh p.s. all these things seem to glow in the previews; do they really all come with LEDs!? and if so, why do they offer coloured neon lights as a purchasable upgrade? where would they go? does a thing that glows really need to glow more?)

(p.p.s. hahaha LOOK at the Raidmax Sagitta II!! somewhere a big robot is missing its head, and it's quite miffed because it was just about to fight the robot whose head fell off and became the NZXT Hades)

(the Sagitta II would probably be on my list too just because it's so weird-looking. it's not actually conical like that picture suggests, but the front is still pretty weird.)

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

A liquid cooling system simply being installed won't void any warranties I know about, however if it leaks and damages a part, that would not be covered by warranty. So in other words, if the motherboard died due to their own manufacturing issues, you would still be under warranty, but if your cooling system leaks onto the motherboard and fries it, you're SOL. I've never used liquid cooling, so I don't really have any experience with it. I can say that if you get a case with proper air cooling and the CPU's heatsink is installed properly, you will be operating well within acceptable limits. Plus, you are in Canada, right? You got yourself some natural cooling right there XD. Be advised that the i7's stock cooler can come loose sometimes due to the plastic expanding when it's heated. If this happens, your CPU temperatures will go up to 120+ C and if you keep it running like that you will fry the processor. I suggest using something like Speedfan to just periodically check that your running at the right temperatures. On only stock air, my processor runs at 47 - 52C all the time, idle or full load. Intel's specs say it's good up to 85C.

Hard drive cooling systems aren't necessary as long as your case has good cooling. The Radeon HD 5850 has it's own built in cooler, so that should prevent the VGA from heating up the hard drives.

The i7 940 should be a great choice. If you do have to go down, like I said, don't go lower than 930. It's only a $10 difference between 920 and 930, and the 930 is faster and it has better materials. I have a 920, and it's working well so it's not like there's any immediate threat to it, but if you've got the choice you should go for the newer one, especially since it's $10 XD

The cases probably do have LEDs, a lot of cases do these days. You can put more in, because you can attach them to the inside of the case so you can see all the parts while it's running.

Again, the Radeon HD5850 is a fantastic card, you'll be really happy with it.

So, like I said, I am on stock air and these are the temperatures I am at:

Ambient: 38C
Motherboard: 42C
Hard Drive: 32C
CPU: 46 - 47 (Each core is at a different temperature)
VGA: 46C

These temperatures are pretty much what I get all the time, and the computer's generally on for 15, 16 hours a day.

 

[mawk]

awesome, man. thanks for all the help. I guess all that's left now is for me to finally decide on a case... and then to scrape together the cash for it. :x

even taking exchange rates and everything into account, this setup's really reasonable compared to the premade Dell I was going to order before you guys set me straight -- just a little over two thou (including the OS, monitor, and other accessories), same as the Dell, but with far better features, even if I have to cut back on some things to drop the price.

the only question I'm left with is... why don't more people do this? :x individual components are so much cheaper, give you better control over your contents, and even if you're lame like me you can find a company that'll assemble it professionally for not a whole lot extra. the only reason I can think of that Dell, HP, and all these other companies are still is business is lack of exposure.

 

[psiclone]

the only reason I can think of that Dell, HP, and all these other companies are still is business is lack of exposure.

That's pretty much the only reason. Or, possibly people just don't understand/don't know what to get/are scared to screw it up. As advanced as our society is, there's still so many people who don't know what's goin's on;s

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

No problem, building computers is tons of fun :D I'm kinda sad that I won't get to do it again for a long time XD.

Also, there's 2 reasons people buy licensed factory models. The most common is that they just don't know any better. They are either afraid to try to put it together themselves (Which is understandable, considering the amount of money we're talking about) and don't know you can hire someone else to do it and it will still be cheaper, or they think that there's something special to the factory models. The other reason is the warranty. If you buy a factory model, you get a warranty and support on the whole computer, so you don't need to know what failed why.

For the computer I built, it was about $1300 including shipping. The only company I could find that offered comparable computers was Alienware, and those models cost about $2000 and they didn't have the Radeon HD 5800 series card (I think it had like a GTX 285).

Basically, if you buy a factory computer, you are looking at around a 40% markup on the price. If you hire someone to do it for you, probably a 10 - 15% markup. The 40% markup gets you a better warranty, but usually weaker parts in on area or another because it is less customizable. The 10-15% markup might (or might not) get you a little bit of an extra warranty over building it yourself. It also means that you know they will check to make sure all the parts play nicely together. If you build it yourself you get the best options for customizing but, of course, you run the risk of buying bad parts or of messing up the build.

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

Wait, I just checked out Cyberpower. It's $146 more for i7 940 over the 930? There's no way it's worth that. The *only* difference between the two is 500Mhz core clock speed which, as we already talked about, doesn't matter. You wouldn't push the clock speed on a 930, and even if you did it's very overclockable, you can get it to like 5Ghz. If it was me I would definitely get the 930. Plus I was wrong anyway. The 940 is hard to find not because it is new, but because it is discontinued. No one wanted it becuase it was overpriced compared to the 920. You should definitely get the 930 instead.

 

[Ellie]

Whenever I've tried to "build my own" through component parts stores, it's worked out more expensive than the equivalent Dell once building costs and shipping are worked out. Maybe prices are just different in the UK, or maybe a sale was on or something, but I've always gone with Dells because the price difference was quite a lot.

 

[Venetia]

You wouldn't push the clock speed on a 930, and even if you did it's very overclockable, you can get it to like 5Ghz.

wow really
man i'm so behind the times

 

[mawk]

it's like a 50s futurist take on Pyramid Head

I love it

 

[Venetia]

oh and yeah if a tower pictures LEDs then it comes with LEDs. You can get additional LEDs installed usually too if you'd like. They're not expensive and they don't sap much power at all.

 

[psiclone]

Keep in mind, mawk, if you get a case like the one you posted there. From the looks of it, it has no buttons on the outside, so you'll have to open it every time you want to put a cd in, turn it on, reset, etc etc. I was so annoyed by that with my old computer, and that influenced my decision on the new case. just something to keep in mind

 

[Venetia]

i really like that mine has an aesthetic door in the front. it looks better. opening it takes all of 1 second and if you're doing CD swaps or something ... You leave the door open.

 

[Venetia]

and i really recommend side and/or top fan cooling slots in the tower. top works well because heat rises, and side works great because the air is blown directly on the cards. Rear/front cooling are important depending upon where your HDDs are seated; they're usually in the front.

 

[DeM0nFiRe]

You wouldn't push the clock speed on a 930, and even if you did it's very overclockable, you can get it to like 5Ghz.

wow really
man i'm so behind the times

Well, 5Ghz is if you've got a solid PSU and good liquid cooling. You can get up to 4Ghz on stock air, and 3.6Ghz on stock air is pretty common.

Also, rear/front fans are important for ambient case temperature. That will decrease the temperature of all of your parts. Then you want a side fan (or top fan) on your CPU and a side fan on your VGA. He's got one hard drive, so he probably won't have a problem with needing to cool that. You only really need to worry about cooling if you got more than a couple stacked together, or you've got the 10,000RPM drives. Like I said, I've got nothing directly on the hard drives and my hard drive is at 32C all the time. That's a WD Caviar Blue 7,200RPM drive so it's not an especially cool drive.

lol, the door on my case stays open all the time. I always have a guitar cable plugged into the front, so I just leave it open.

 

[mawk]

actually psiclone the power button is right in the middle of the mask thing as far as I can tell

the jacks and extra usb ports are in the top, too. you only really gotta open the door to get at the disc drives, and I basically never use discs.

 

[Venetia]

You only really need to worry about cooling if you got more than a couple stacked together, or you've got the 10,000RPM drives. Like I said, I've got nothing directly on the hard drives and my hard drive is at 32C all the time. That's a WD Caviar Blue 7,200RPM drive so it's not an especially cool drive.

lol, the door on my case stays open all the time. I always have a guitar cable plugged into the front, so I just leave it open.

Haha yeah my case is pretty much always open too. I have a really powerful desk fan always blowing on it, aimed right at the vid card.
Doesn't look good but drops the temp by about 10 degrees C thereabouts. My system usually runs at about 45-65 degrees, which is hotter than I'd like, but nothing dangerous.

I have 2 10kRPM HDDs stacked on each other and my files are p-preciouss so I worry about their cooling needs :V