Is it legal?

[Ellie]

My mom's favourite Christmas cassette stopped working today, completely. We went looking for it on the Internet (to buy) and found out it's £44.99! (That's the cheapest one of it) as you can only get it on CD, and imported from the USA. (It is from 1996...)

So, I tried downloading it. My mom was saying how it's illegal to download music, and well, it is I guess.

But is it illegal in this case? We own the music on cassette, it's just that the cassette has stopped working. So we aren't downloading anything we haven't legally paid for.

(Note: I'm not asking if it's morally ok, nor am I asking if it's mentally ok to want to download Wham and others. )

 

[jbart321]

I am pretty sure since you own the item in question, that it is ok to download a copy since you are basically backing up what you already have.  This would kind of be the same as if you have a DVD and make a copy of it just in case...

 

[Cruelty]

consider that there's nothing wrong with it, morally. =D

 

[Prexus]

If your TV breaks, are you allowed to pirate TV shows and movies or steal a TV? It's still illegal.

 

[Sailerius]

If your TV breaks, are you allowed to pirate TV shows and movies or steal a TV? It's still illegal.

That's not quite the same thing.  When you buy a TV, you're buying the ability to watch programming.  When you buy a CD, you're buying the content on it.

 

[GhastlyMasquerade]

At the beginning, even copying a cassette you owned was considered illegal, but after a while it became legal. You can copy your cassettes, and even cds as long as you don't distribute them around. Now... the fact is you aren't copying it but downloading it. So basically the action of downloading it is still illegal even if you own a copy of it.

 

[Prexus]

No, Sailerius, that isn't true. When buying a CD or Cassette, you are buying the music to listen to, not the music itself.

 

[DerVVulfman]

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) which is defending the copyright owner's ability to sell their merchandise is making it harder for additional copy ownership.  The RIAA claims that you have to pay for each download or copy that you have, even if you already have the work in another format.

IE:  Owning some music on Cassette and then wanting a copy on CD ... REQUIRES you... to pay for the music, even if you burn your own copy.  They intend to do away with the notion of 'back-up' copies of music or movies (originally protected by the Fair Use clause of the Copyright Act) as it were.

 

[Charlie Fleed]

I'm not even in the US but I'm curious about this. Is this just a claim from RIAA or is it US law? I guess that if law hasn't changed yet they can claim what they want but that doesn't make it illegal...

 

[obsidian desire]

The fact is (although it's worth noting I'm British), if you own the cassette and you download it "illegally", you're not gonna have people knocking on your door.
I don't know a single teenager with internet access that hasn't pirated something. A DVD, a CD, a game etc. They just don't care if it's small things. It's when you start distributing and running your own DVD ring or something that they start complaining... (they being the government in Britains case

 

[jbart321]

If your TV breaks, are you allowed to pirate TV shows and movies or steal a TV? It's still illegal.

This is not the same thing at all...

Wyatt, do some research on laws.  It is the only way to be sure, but since you already own the cassette, I see no issue with this.  Like I said, it is the same as owning a DVD, then either copying it or downloading a copy for backup, which is not illegal (cause you are allowed to have one backup).

 

[DerVVulfman]

Nope, not if you live in the US:  US Copyright law on backups

It pertains to backup copies of software, but also states that copyrighted works such as music and other non-software works (movies, books, etc) are not considered permitted backups.

 

[Jason]

Sorry, but your all being unreal here, except for you obsidian desire, your british, like me, and you know what your talking about...

EVERYONE downloads illegally, downloading music, films, games, programs, stuff like that, you know when you see a pic on the internet and think "I'll have that", and copy and paste it into Paint and save it ? Thats considered illegal because your stealing their work.
Nothing bad happens from this because it is only a small thing, now if were talking downloading every film on the net, and selling them, then theres a problem, which you can get put in prison for here in the UK.

Downloading is normal on the internet, how many people have Limewire, I sure do, and I download  1000's of songs and stuff from it, do I care about it ? No, because nothing will happen.

 

[Venetia]

jbrist: No. Just. No.

Don't give advice like this. It's not a prudent thing to do.

Yes, millions and millions of people do illegal shit all the time. But it's not as okay as you think, and a percentage of those people will be busted. So while you may get away with it time and again, you profess this "knowledge", and someone else does it, and gets busted/sued.

Not to mention: It's dumb as hell to openly admit to doing illegal shit! What if I took your post and your IP address (which I have--all mods/admins/mngmt/people with the right skills do) and reported you to the authorities so they can bust you next time they monitor you doing illegal shit? I won't because I'm lazy, but it's the principle!

Also, if you put in hours and hours/days and days, and hundreds/thousands/millions of dollars/euros on developing something, would you appreciate it very much if someone just said, "oh, it's okay to redistribute this illegally becuz I won't get busted lullz"?

Lastly, your information is wrong. Saving images is not piracy. Redistributing them is. There are differences in how copyright law is interpreted in regards to digital images and digital music. Read up on it before "professing" anything

 

[Jason]

Venetia, why are you going into these details, I bet £1000000 you download things illegally like songs, you can't say you actually pay to download the songs because you know it's 100x easier to get them for free, your just saying how much it is illegal, when I bet you do it yourself, EVERYONE does.

If it was illegal wouldn't the governemt etc. know about Limewire by now and ban or sue the website and stuff, well they haven't done anything like that, and it's been up for ages.

So therefore I prove my point, the government etc. doesn't give a toss if we download a few songs every now and then, their busy looking for the big time people who are hacking on the internet and trying to hack the Governments files etc., not looking for 1 person downloading a few songs from time to time.
You gotta think realisticly about this.

And about the pictures, Not being wierd, but I think all 4 of my ICT teachers at school, each with over 20 years experience and over 8 years university should know better about this stuff than you, not calling you dumb, but I've asked them about stuff like this before, and I think they know more about it than you, so thats my point proven thankyou very much.

 

[Rain]

Venetia, why are you going into these details, I bet £1000000 you download things illegally like songs, you can't say you actually pay to download the songs because you know it's 100x easier to get them for free, your just saying how much it is illegal, when I bet you do it yourself, EVERYONE does.

If it was illegal wouldn't the governemt etc. know about Limewire by now and ban or sue the website and stuff, well they haven't done anything like that, and it's been up for ages.

So therefore I prove my point, the government etc. doesn't give a toss if we download a few songs every now and then, their busy looking for the big time people who are hacking on the internet and trying to hack the Governments files etc., not looking for 1 person downloading a few songs from time to time.
You gotta think realisticly about this.

And about the pictures, Not being wierd, but I think all 4 of my ICT teachers at school, each with over 20 years experience and over 8 years university should know better about this stuff than you, not calling you dumb, but I've asked them about stuff like this before, and I think they know more about it than you, so thats my point proven thankyou very much.

Although personally I don't have a problem with this.... Your arguement isn't exactly 'rock solid' lol

Just because it is as you say 'overlooked' doesn't mean it isn't illegal.

... But that just adds to the buzz of ripping off the fuckers :D

(>_>... )

 

[Venetia]

Venetia, why are you going into these details, I bet £1000000 you download things illegally like songs, you can't say you actually pay to download the songs because you know it's 100x easier to get them for free, your just saying how much it is illegal, when I bet you do it yourself, EVERYONE does.

Firstly, I'm American, so £1000000 wouldn't buy me anything :P
Secondly, I'm not naive enough to go around saying what sort of activity I do on the internet, illegal or not. The fact of the matter is, people get busted doing shit like that ALL THE TIME.

It's called "RIAA v. The people". Read up.
http://digitalmusic.weblogsinc.com/2006 ... ng-lawsui/

Pre-litigation to college kids from the RIAA themselves:
http://www.riaa.com/newsitem.php?id=8E8 ... EBD3A603B9

RIAA sues 261 people:
http://www.news.com/2100-1023_3-5072564.html

RIAA sues 482 people:
http://www.riaalawsuits.com/news/details.cfm?nID=60

The list goes ON AND ON. They DO look for people doing P2P fileswaps, they DO monitor activity, and they DO take action!

If it was illegal wouldn't the governemt etc. know about Limewire by now and ban or sue the website and stuff, well they haven't done anything like that, and it's been up for ages.

Yes, the govm'ts DO know about Limewire. And they monitor it like crazy. They just can't crack down on every little thing because there are millions of people doing it. That's like saying, "well, everybody does crack so you won't get busted". What about the people who DO get busted?!

The fact of the matter is, the govm'ts can't do shit about Limewire or any other P2P site. The companies producing the software are doing NOTHING wrong. The companies that produce P2P sites say that their software is supposed to be used for sharing legal information and copyright-free material! So the only people who can be busted are the people who do illegal shit.

Guy goes down to the harbor and buys a prostitute. Should the harbor be closed? No, it's not the harbor's fault! It's the people soliciting prostitution!

So therefore I prove my point, the government etc. doesn't give a toss if we download a few songs every now and then, their busy looking for the big time people who are hacking on the internet and trying to hack the Governments files etc., not looking for 1 person downloading a few songs from time to time.
You gotta think realisticly about this.

And you need to think less naively. Like I said, I can report you any time. And also as I said, companies sue people for doing shit like this CONSTANTLY.

And about the pictures, Not being wierd, but I think all 4 of my ICT teachers at school, each with over 20 years experience and over 8 years university should know better about this stuff than you, not calling you dumb, but I've asked them about stuff like this before, and I think they know more about it than you, so thats my point proven thankyou very much.

Perhaps it's different in your country than in America. (Please note: Being a professor doesn't instantly make you an expert in everything--also you expect me to believe that you asked every one of them this exact question candidly? I have 3 years legal experience, have researched these matters thoroughly, and my husband is in law school. So while I'm no lawyer, I'm not a n00b in law. But that is why, in my Copyright Law thread, I state that you should seek the advice of an attorney should you ever embark on something as hazy as using digital media commercially.)

BUT, if you are gathering an image online from someone, and that someone is the one who created the image, or has rights to it, and they are offering it for free, you are allowed to take it. You cannot REDISTRIBUTE it. Look up REDISTRIBUTION. Also, if you are gaining no profit from the image, and you credit your source, you can redistribute the image. How do you think the BBC gets away with putting up hundreds of pictures a day? Do you think they personally write the photographers and ask? No, they put a little credit blurb on the bottom!

If you're using the image for profit and the image has been registered and you do not credit your source, the creator can get a court order for you to remove it and sue for compensory damages.

Sure, it doesn't happen often. But it does happen, and statistically/mathematically speaking you COULD be one of the unlucky few to get blackballed.

--------------

Lastly, this is NOT a debate. Quit professing your opinion on pro-illegal activity. I'm saying this as a mod of the forum, looking out for the forum. We don't allow illegal shit here, and confessing to it isn't much better.

Wyatt, I apologize for hijacking your topic

 

[syphonmax]

I think my eyes popped out reading Venetia's post.....I'm blind!! :'(

 

[mawk]

Jbrist, I think you're losing sight of the actual question here. Wyatt's not asking if he'd get caught for doing something like that, he's asking if it's even legal in the first place.

The short answer being "very no."

Trying to convince him to do it anyway could get you both busted by the e-spies, hitmen, and robots that frequent the blank spaces and wait in their fitted business suits, assuming Wyatt actually follows your advice. As it is, you only remain a free man by the discretion of the mods.

So, what I'm really putting out here is a very generalized "don't do it! You have so much to live for!"

 

[Jason]

Venetia, ICT Teacher doesnt mean Proffeser, an ICT Teacher teaches ICT (Computing), and I asked them because I'm taught by all four at the same time.