If the Earth had Rings

[Venetia]

You may have already seen this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT2sQ7KIQ-E

Well anyway I've been considering the possibility of a habitable planet with rings instead of moons. What if the Earth had rings instead of the moon?

Obviously, the tides would be completely different (would there even be any?). Our culture would be different. The temperature of each season would be different. Light shining through the rings would differ depending on the material and the position of the sun shining through it. Nights would be brighter. Our culture would have developed differently--possibly, ENTIRELY differently. It's possible to speculate that the rings would be so bright, you wouldn't be able to see the stars, no matter how dark it was out. Unless the rings were in their shaded stage.

It would probably be made of rock, not ice (like Saturn), since we're so close to the sun ... So let's go with that, for now.

Before I get too crazy and in-depth with the suppositions, what do you guys think? Time to don your speculation caps.

I'm no physicist or astrologist; all I can do is make suppositions based on what little knowledge I have of the moon's effect on the planet and comparisons to Saturn. Maybe some genierses like Preihelom would have a more ... informed ... guess. Things like ... Would the shaded side of the rings change based on the location of the sun or would there be certain areas ALWAYS trapped in darkness? Etc.

And for all you non-NASA-hopefuls, how exactly do you suppose society would have adapted, even into modern times? Obviously space travel would be greatly impacted, as well as the ability to use satellites.

Let's make a think tank :cheers:

 

[Ellie]

I prefer the rings around uranus

What

Oh come on someone was bound to say it

...

It's an intriguing concept. But if there were rings are we assuming they were formed from the same rock as the moon - and therefore the same mass? Would there even be an effect on the tides, as the mass and gravity and whatnot would be the same?

Except on nevermind I don't really understand how the tides work.

Maybe some scienceperson could answer this - why do we only see the moon's effect on the tides? If it's gravity is so strong, why don't we notice it anywhere else? Except it's the wind that moves the waves and the moon that makes the wind and

Oh dear, confused now.

 

[bashful crobat]

Let's ask perihelion

 

[Brewmeister]

Why speculate. Let's just blow up the moon with our "Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator" and see what happens.
"Where's the ka-boom? There was s'posed to be a Ka-boom!"

 

[moog]

Let's ask perihelion

 

[Incognitus]

Maybe some scienceperson could answer this - why do we only see the moon's effect on the tides? If it's gravity is so strong, why don't we notice it anywhere else? Except it's the wind that moves the waves and the moon that makes the wind and...

I'm not a scienceperson - but I did read a book once.

The moon causes atmospheric tides as well as oceanic tides - it creates a "bulge" in both, meaning when the moon is full or new... it gets colder. I think it also strengthens several of the various jet-streams.
Especially if the moon is at perigee - which is happening, like, now-ish. That's one of the contributing factors as to why it's suddenly got a lot colder lately.

As satellites get better, topologists, geologists (and their friends) have begun to notice a slight tidal effect on the tectonic plates - hence the Moon could be a contributing factor to volcanic activity, earthquakes, tsunamis and so forth.

As for noticing it on anything else, what else do you think we should notice it on? I mean, we can measure the tidal effect of... say, Jupiter on a body - but it produces results too small to be observed: the main ones are, obviously, the Moon followed by the Sun, the Moon's gravitational effect being about 220% greater than that of the Sun's - hence our noticing it more.

 

[regi]

Let's ask perihelion

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[dadevvtsvre]

Tides are made because the moon and the earth are constantly pulling each other, like magnets. This is why we stay in orbit. However, most things on earth are stuck to the ground, so the moon's gravity really doesn't exert much force over things like trees or houses, and its effects are virtually nil. However, water (and other liquids, for that matter) aren't nailed or stuck to the earth's surface, so the moon can actually pull water towards it.

You only experience tides that have high and low intervals, however, because the moon is constantly orbiting around the earth. When it's very close to water, it pulls the water, making high tide; the opposite when the moon is on the other side of the earth.

If our earth was constantly surrounded by rings that were in the same positions and never moved in relation to the earth, then there would be no tides. The water closest to the rings (the water around the Equator) would feel the greatest pull, but compared to the rest of the earth the effect would be almost nothing. And you wouldn't get high or low tides, either, because the rings would never move.

Like Incognitus said, the sun also exerts a small force on the earth, but compared to the moon it really doesn't produce a significant difference. (maybe half a foot between high tide or low tide in the most affected areas, which you wouldn't even notice)

It's really not that complicated. :specs:

The moon causes atmospheric tides as well as oceanic tides - it creates a "bulge" in both, meaning when the moon is full or new... it gets colder. I think it also strengthens several of the various jet-streams.
Especially if the moon is at perigee - which is happening, like, now-ish. That's one of the contributing factors as to why it's suddenly got a lot colder lately.

Uh...? The moon doesn't dictate how hot or cold it will be. The moon produces a microscopic effect on the atmosphere, but it's because the oceans bulge along with it, not because of gravity. Gases don't care about gravity. (Assholes.)

The sun produces atmospheric tides, but it's got nothing to do with gravity, it has to do with the heat the sun releases. The atmosphere experiences thermal tides in this was, not gravitational ones.

It usually seems colder when the moon is full because the only time we can see a full moon is when there's no clouds. And if there's less clouds, there's less of a "blanket" covering the earth, so of course it will feel colder. It really has nothing to do with the moon being right over us.

Maybe some scienceperson could answer this - why do we only see the moon's effect on the tides? If it's gravity is so strong, why don't we notice it anywhere else? Except it's the wind that moves the waves and the moon that makes the wind and

The moon has nothing to do with wind. Wind is caused by the flow of air from high pressure areas to low pressure areas. Affected by the sun, definitely, because of thermal energy. But the moon? No. And wind only makes waves, it doesn't affect the tide at all. (although it can produce storm surges in extreme circumstances like hurricanes!)

 

[moog]

tl;dr youre all ner'rds

 

[psiclone]

after reading dave's post, i can feel my brain expanding expotentially.

yes, i read it allllllllllllllllllll

 

[Ellie]

Devvy is smarter than me and I got A* in Geography uch: I should know these things. Probably did at some point.

Would the movement of the rings (in orbit around the planet) have any groovy effects?

 

[candle]

You would get the occasional meteor shower as the rings are slowly pulled back into the earth surface.

Fact: Saturn's rings are getting smaller due to a deteriorating orbit.
Fact: Earth once had rings as well as two other moons hundreds of millions of years ago.
Fact: Other planets with rings include Jupiter and Uranus.

 

[Ellie]

Peter was a Christian

 

[Brewmeister]

I thought Peter was a cottontail?????

Gases do care about gravity. (i.e. are affected by...) Otherwise that warm, less dense fart wouldn't reach your younger brother on the top bunk. :scruff:
Although in this context (lunar atmospheric tides), it's going to be pretty negligible.

 

[Skyla Doragono]

You would get the occasional meteor shower as the rings are slowly pulled back into the earth surface.

This. I'm certain we'd learn to adapt, but I can't imagine waking up one day and suddenly having a crater for a neighbor.

 

[gunga1]

Hummm.... I have very little input on the science side of things, we're probably pretty clear on that anyways...

On the social end however I imagine we'd at least not have any sun-moon, day-night oppositions that I think are fairly common in mythology and folklore. We'd also have noticed that the earth is round a lot earlier probably and possibly triggered a scientfic revolution at an earlier date as well... Of course we'd also have a really cool looking thing in the sky dropping glowing stones on the cavemen so I guess there'd be religions that involve gods throwing stuff at us from the ring or something. Mythological descriptions might also drive people to migrate towards the equator or away from it and mold their image of paradise, hell and most of their values accordingly(things generally get warmer towards the equator)

So we'd probably have a fairly different culture and the equatorial areas would probably be equivalent to todays middle east if not worse politically. With meteor showers. :shock: Maybe probably possibly hypothetically theoretically.

 

[Glitchfinder]

A few things I noticed in this thread. First, the tides are not entirely due to the moon. The moon pulls the water, yes, but it also pulls the earth, resulting as a high tide on the side closest to the moon, as well as on the opposite side. The position of the sun and moon relative to each other also affect tides, with spring and neap tides being the opposite ends of the spectrum. Spring tides are when the sun and moon are more or less aligned, and the tides are much stronger and regular, while neap tides are when they are more or less perpendicular when taking the Earth as a focal point, and have irregular, small tides.

As to the comment about this only meaning a few feet of difference at the most... Well, that needs a link.

Also, to note, the moon does have an effect on other portions of the earth. Studies are beginning to show that volcanic activity in the ring of fire does in fact correlate to the motions of the moon. (Just remember a common fallacy: correlation does NOT mean causation) Add to that the fact that several of the large earthquakes in California in the last fifty or so years have actually been predicted by one man who looks at various sources allegedly related to earthquakes, such as the number of pet runaways and the position of the moon, and you have some rather interesting ideas. It has in fact been shown (as was already mentioned) that the moon does have a slight effect on the tectonic plates, although that is not commonly known at this point.

 

[Incognitus]

such as the number of pet runaways

How on earth did he get valid statistical evidence about the number of pet runaways for the last fifty years?

 

[Glitchfinder]

such as the number of pet runaways

How on earth did he get valid statistical evidence about the number of pet runaways for the last fifty years?

He was actually basing it on what he found in the local classifieds. You'd be surprised what you can find in the classifieds if you look. Oh, and he probably visited local vets and shelters too.