Having Children = Creating Slaves

[Dissonance]

Alright I'm going to tell you about a bit of my life here in order to try and make a point but I don't want you faggots to go "oh god diss I'm sorry I didn't know" or some bullshit.  It's insulting and I'd rather use my AWESOME ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE to discuss a broader idea rather than just whip up what few members that care (or don't know me enough to NOT care) into a big bawwwfest.  so uh, even though this might come across as a possible child abuse story BLOW IT OUT YER ASS

Of course you might also think "god diss is a whiny faggot" and in that case you can also stfu :3

When it came to children my mom had a rather common idea about them, and it actually makes a great deal of sense when you think about it.  Which is probably the reason why so many parents adhere to it.  Basically, the idea was "You're young and inexperienced and dumb, I'm old and lived and smrt.  You have no real material wealth whatsoever, I have a job and work 40 hours a week and bought you everything you ever owned ever.  You are completely 100% dependant on me for everything and there's no way out."  I mean, it's all true.  At 6 years old your entire life is dependant on your parents.  And my parents gave me a good chunk of stuff beyond the required food/clothing/shelter.  However, they never, EVER let me go a moment without realizing it.

It's probably sounding normal to everybody so far, but let me put it this way:  Oh, want that new SNES game Nichole?  Sure I'll buy it for you, now run along and have fun.  But by the way, I want you to remember that I bought it for you and you owe me every second that you play, and I might even drop in on you while you're playing just to drop a snide remark like "remember who bought you that gadgit" for no reason.  I'll also continue to tell you daily for the next several weeks just to remind you of your place.  And as soon as being constantly reminded of your debt to us becomes so annoying, humiliating, and demoralizing that you stop asking us for things, we'll just buy you random junk so we can keep telling you that the debt is piling up and up and up.

I live on my own now, and I scrape up enough cash to get by.  Not great living, not nearly what my parents have, but I can't complain.  I can pay for rent, food, TV, internets, warcraft, and have enough left over to buy the occasional video game or something.  And I made sure that I had saved up a hefty cushin of cash just in case I were to lose my job or something, before finally calling my mother - which I just did an hour ago during my lunch break.

I told her plainly and simply that no, I was no longer dependant on her, that I don't give a shit about anything that I may "owe" her from my youth, and to never contact me again.

My mother is a classic example of what a lot of parents subconsiously (or even consiously) believe.  They have a want in their lives (to have a family) without actually caring about what their actions do to the family members they create in the process.  To them, having a family is just a natural want - all people must do it, to not do it is wasting your life.  They believe that having a child is like having a slave.  When you create a life, yes it is completely dependant on you, but constantly reminding them of it every single fucking day is not to be done.  Children are being blinked into existence with absolutely nothing to their name, being given what they need to survive, and then constantly beat down BECAUSE they accepted that gift.  Parents should give to their children because they want to see their child blossom, not so they can exert unwarranted levels of control and make the child feel like they have to be an indentured servant for the rest of their lives to make up for it.

Before you get goin', yes children should also be thankful for what their parents give them.  But does it have to be a power struggle?  Why can't a mother or father buy something for their kid because it makes them feel good to see their kid happy, and the child in return is grateful toward the parent for their help and generosity?

Another way this happens (and usually far more often that my example of physical gifts) is concerning privacy and safe havens.  Within any relationship, if there is an argument or a struggle, the retreating party must have somewhere to retreat to in order to not feel so totally demoralized that they fall into a depression.  We all have secret and private places that we go to where we shut the world out for a time - either to just forget about problems, relax and be lazy, or whatever.  For a young child that is almost ALWAYS their bedroom, but occasionally places outside the house - in the nearby woods, or the park, or whatever.  They disappear or and do whatever in their own privacy.  But what happens when a parent barges in on them and tells them to either "GET OUT OF THAT TREE/PARK AND COME HOME" (removal from the safe zone) or "I OWN THIS HOUSE AND I OWN THIS ROOM TOO" (destruction of said zone)?  To give a young and hurt child absolutely nowhere to retreat to, nothing that they can truly call their own... I wonder why so many parents think that kind of demoralization and loss of identity is a good idea?

The worst of it is when you're older and have a parttime job, and despite you actually EARNING YOUR OWN MONEY your parents try and lay a claim to every cent you make as you're still living under their roof.  They may not even get it as you've tucked it away in some secret bank account or under your bed or something but to try and even assert the idea is insulting enough in itself.

What does that lead to?  Well, for the most part, people like me - who finally break free of their parents financially and then never see them ever again.

At this point i might sound like a "bawww i hate mommy bcuz i'm an edgey teenager (desptie being 22)" but I don't care anymore.  Doing all the things a parent should do and then never letting your child forget that you did it and that THEY FUCKING OWE YOU is not good

(if mods or something want to delete this because it turns out to read more like a personal rant about my own parents and my childhood rather than actually discussing shitty parenting tactics and how parents think that demoralization and loss of identity = discipline and how having children can be equated to creating slaves I totally wouldn't blame you.  This is probably one of the only times in my entire life I've been on this kind of an emotional rush and I'm trying to stay on the general topic but I wouldn't be surprised if I've flown off in odd directions)

 

[Venetia]

i disagree with your slaves premise ... I mean, not all parents lord over their children the same way yours did. Yeah, it's bad to do that, but it's not really a "parenting tactic" so much as it is ... Bad parenting :/

when i was a kid i never got hardly ANYTHING, and i was worked from morning to sunset, and i was punished so severely sometimes i wake up in the night having night terrors because i accidentally conjured up a memory of it.

but not all kids are like that. hell, my husband's mom did EVERYTHING around the house--she cooked, cleaned, did EVERYTHING, and he and his sibs got EVERYTHING they asked for, and his dad only reminded them of their place in jest, or when they were being bad or something.

i mean you're right; children SHOULDN'T be treated as sub-humans. they SHOULDN'T be constantly reminded that they're ... Lesser beings.

I mean, a reminder every once in a while reminds them who's in charge, in case they get greedy or too self-righteous or something, but the kid shouldn't feel ... sub-standard.

I don't see who would argue with that.

 

[Dissonance]

Yeah Venetia I actually expected you to be the first one to respond :3 :3 :3

From your previous posts I gather that you've had a rough time of it and while I'm not going to ask you about it (because you probably would've told me already if you wanted me to know the deets) I would make a guess that your situation was a LOT worse than mine as yours involved physical abuses while mine was only verbal - it was just constant and unending

I mean I suppose my point is there's a spanking thread where everybody is like BEAT YOUR KIDS or DON'T BEAT YOUR KIDS but hey don't forget that just verbally being a dick do them is sometimes more effective/damaging because you didn't even have to beat the kid - a few well placed words can crush a child's world from afar.

 

[kaze950]

I think you're underestimating the humanity of many parents.

I don't think all parents buy things for their children just so they can have leverage over them or to be able to say, "You know, I bought you that."

I mean sure, they'll say things like that sometimes, but I doubt it is for malicious purposed. I think most parents only say things like that just to keep the kid in check - so he doesn't become a spoiled brat.

While some people are obviously better parents than others, I still think most genuinely love their kids. And while the "Remember sonny, you owe me your life" line gets old, remember this: It is true.

I can say that I have had good parents in life, who've never treated be as sub-human. Nothing irritates me more when you see a mother/father treating their kids like a personal servant, bringing them drinks and carrying their things.

And while children may be dependent on their parents, that certainly doesn't make them slaves and I still think the majority of parents wouldn't be as selfish to only care about themselves.

 

[Venetia]

@diss: oh i definitely agree.

i actually think (because i've had both sides of the coin in LARGE amounts) verbal abuse can be WORSE sometimes, esp. in large amounts over long stretches of time.

i mean, phys. abuse is worse in the short-term, but verbal abuse is PSYCHOLOGICAL abuse, and that lasts WELL into your adulthood. While scars and bruises heal, psychological scars last your whole life.

(and yes i fully realize that physical abuse leads to psych abuse, but that's quicker and more violent while verbal abuse is slow, demoralizing, and eats away at your psyche instead of inflating it to crazed proportions).

a lot of parents figure that, so long as they don't leave welts or scars, they're not being abusive. that screaming and put-downs and insults are ok forms of punishment somehow.

but they're not!!!!!!!!! they might not threaten physical health, but they kill the psyche!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zekallinos]

About the owing part...the debt does not go to your parents, it goes towards your own children (if you are going to have any), that thus, keeping the cycle of life running, does it not?

From the sound of it, your parents seemed very irritating, much more then they should be, although every parent must remind children that you can't get everything free in life, so that when adults, they become a better person, should they not?

 

[___]

It's a sadly common problem. I don't think it sprouts from malice or coldness so much as from the fact that our parents were damaged when they were kids and are just passing down the abuse. For me, rather than being told I owed them something constantly they felt that I was obligated to submit to insane micromanaged control. Not with any consistent plan like some anal parents do, pushing me toward some presupposed ideal of success, but just random and senseless things with no direction or purpose to remind me that they were in charge and I had no choice. Naturally by the time I was 11 I had pretty much snapped, and after four violent and turbulent years I left the house.

This whole idea of "I brought you into the world and I own you" in my opinion is totally backwards. If you have a kid, you have a responsibility to that child and to society at large to raise it as well as you can and give it the best that you can give it. It's not the child that owes you, it's the other way around.

 

[Dissonance]

This whole idea of "I brought you into the world and I own you" in my opinion is totally backwards. If you have a kid, you have a responsibility to that child and to society at large to raise it as well as you can and give it the best that you can give it. It's not the child that owes you, it's the other way around.

EXACTLY HOLY GOD WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THIS

When you create a life yes it's totally dependant on you but that doesn't mean that you're supposed to EXPLOIT THAT DEPENDANCY.  You have created a situation where another human being is unable to fend for itself (due to lack of age and experience) and it's your job to fix that without totally humiliating the child constantly while you do it.

 

[Diaforetikos]

Like V said, who would disagree with this? I have never been, and would never talk down to a child or as a child. That is worse than a beating. I have more to say, but I don't think anyone would want to hear it. But I agree with you.

 

[kyonides]

Don't you think that kids that ask for too many things, that only want to satisfy their material needs, may be in need of more parental counseling, more quality time or something like that? I guess, that's the only thing I can do for now since I'm no parent, that some of those material needs wouldn't be as necessary as they think they are if they feel more secure, more understood by their parents and etc.

 

[___]

It's not about how well you provide for a child's material desires, it's about how you behave in the context of what you can provide. There are cruel and wonderful parents in all social and economic strata.

 

[rey meustrus]

"We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children." -Native American Proverb

And that is why the white man sucks.  Nevermind my pitiful amount of native ancestry...

 

[tyranius]

I don't think childs are slaves at all. I mean, I have never seen a father say "You're going to obey me, I put you in this world so you obey me you useless dreck." As your father's son you must obey him in my opinion. You feel humilliated to obey an order from your father? Try going to the army and you'll see what real orders are. I don't like taking orders but when I have to, I do accept them. And all your talk about never seeing your parents again is just lame. I've thought about it and now that I've grown up I see how stupid this idea is. Of course I don't show up at my parent's house every single day and hang out with them or anything, but I call them at birthdays and I have dinner with them when it's christimas and stuff and I talk to them when I need to.

Well, to finish: Children are not slaves. They are children.

 

[FlippyD]

I don't think childs are slaves at all. I mean, I have never seen a father say "You're going to obey me, I put you in this world so you obey me you useless dreck."

... I have. And I know for spittin' sure others have as well. :/
Your argument = DoA

 

[tyranius]

ixis... what's a DoA?
and I've seen a father say like "I am your father and you'll obey me" but not "I put you in this world..." if you have then good for you, but I haven't. And again... Children are not slaves.

 

[rey meustrus]

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Have you ever seen a million dollars?  How do you know it exists?  Have you ever seen the center of the Earth?  How do you know that that exists?

 

[tyranius]

yea you guys are right. But I still think children are not slaves.

 

[tyranius]

NECROPOSTING!!!111!!1